Salam and Samar testify to the rich blessing of sharing the Gospel with Muslims...even when it puts their lives at risk.Salam and Samar, our regional directors in the Middle East, have been on the frontlines of an unprecedented movement of Muslims coming to Christ. Josh and Will sit down with the couple to hear how their decision to boldly share the Gospel no matter the cost, even with radical terrorists, altered the trajectory of their lives.
Josh (00:05):
"Return to your stronghold, oh prisoners of hope. Today, I declare that I will restore
to you double." These words come from the ninth chapter of Zechariah, as the Lord
promises a future of healing and bounty to a nation wearing the chains of affliction
and captivity.
(00:26):
Not only do these words invoke comfort and promise, but they provide for us a pow-
erful glimpse into God's economy. That is an economy where the least are the
greatest, the defeated are the conquerors, and those who wear the chains of impris-
onment are actually prisoners of something much greater. They are bound with
hope, with promise, and with joyful expectation.
(00:52):
I'm Joshua Youssef, founder and President of Help the Persecuted.
Will (00:57):
And I'm Will Carlyle, a songwriter and content creator in Atlanta, Georgia.
Josh (01:03):
In this podcast, a ministry of Help the Persecuted exists to give you a glimpse into
the mighty works of God in places where we would least expect it, and invite you
into the mysterious yet beautiful story of redemption. Together we're discovering
how God doesn't let persecution and suffering get the last word. Despite all of our
weaknesses, trials and obstacles, we can rejoice, knowing that we are prisoners of
hope.
Will (01:31):
All right, well, today we have the privilege of listening to our interview with Salam
and Samar. Josh, you mentioned to them that they're just two of your heroes and
they quickly became two of mine. The conversation ran about an hour, or really
more than that, as we were sitting there, and it was so encouraging. They're just
amazing people, and this is the type of people that you can just see how long and
how deeply they've walked with the Lord just by the way they speak of him.
Josh (02:08):
I often say to my team, I ask the question, "Are we still heroes?" And what I mean is,
are we being courageous? Are we being bold? Are we playing it safe? And I just
think a lot of times our tendency is to want to play things safe. And Salam and
Samar have always been two people who have encouraged me in that, not to play it
safe, but to be bold and to be courageous for the sake of the gospel. And so I'm just
really excited about this interview.
Will (02:45):
Absolutely. All right, well without further ado, this is Salam and Samar.
Salam (02:52):
I was a child, I grew up in Lebanon, and then due to the Civil War, I started having
questions about the creator. Is he good? If he is good, why the wars are taking
place? My aunt got killed, my friend got killed. Friends from both faith, Christians,
Muslims, they got killed, and I have both friends from all religions around me. So the
thing is, if there's God, why these things are happening?
(03:25):
Page 1 of 12
I start to realize that it's the doing of the man, not the doing of God, killing, hating
each other. It shouldn't be like this. The model that God created us on was perfect.
He doesn't create anything not perfect from the beginning. But when I have to leave
because of the war, my father's job was relocated to another Arab country, and I
was among 1,500 kids at school, and I'm the only one who's Christian and still not
saved yet, but struggling about God, about faith, which is right. And this made it
more difficult because the kids never were exposed before to anybody against their
faith, or different than them. I was not opposing them in anything because I don't
know their faith, what they believe in.
(04:20):
And they were asking me questions. I can remember some verses from the Bible
that I learned in Sunday school, children church in Lebanon, but still I don't have
that faith. And they wanted to humiliate me as much as they can. So they start do-
ing the sign of the cross and their fingers and spitting on it in front of me.
Will (04:43):
Wow.
Salam (04:44):
And that caused, "Why are they hating me? I don't have any hatred for them, or I
don't even know them yet." Just because I'm different. So the idea was if you are
different, you're not accepted. That was really rough, until I started making more re-
lationship with the students, and many of them are really nice people, and they
started just to get to know me more. But this caused me to dig in my Bible more at
that time.
(05:12):
I was 12 years old, and then I studied the Bible, I studied the Koran, started the
comparison. Why those people are so many, while Christians in that country are
very few. Is Islam right? Is Christianity right? There should be one way to God, not
so many ways. Not all roads lead to Rome, as we say, but there should be that one
way. God doesn't want to confuse people how to follow Him. He wants to make it
easy and simple.
(05:45):
My journey started from there, studying the Bible, and Lord put in my way a very
faithful Christian. This guy came from Kuwait, and he was preparing for his wedding,
and he wanted to get married to my relative. So I was helping him with preparation.
And on the wedding day, it was Friday I remember, and he told me, "Thank you," at
the end of the wedding, "for everything you did, and I'll see you Sunday." I said,
"You are going going to go to your honeymoon." He said, "No, but the Lord comes
first. So I go to church on Sunday, so I'm going to come and pick you up, and take
you with me."
Josh (06:28):
Wow.
Salam (06:29):
Of course that struggle at that time, it's been six years, I'm studying Koran and the
Bible, and I need an answer. I want to follow God, I believe everybody has this kind
of zeal to know the truth, and to know the creator, to know the reason or reasons
why we are here. I was very faithful in seeking God, that's the first thing. And I was
sitting in that home church, it's not church building, it's an apartment, and this guy
Page 2 of 12
is with me. On his honeymoon, he's giving the Lord priority to worship, he and his
new wife. I'm with them, and I was asking God, "If what the preachers is saying is
right, just prove it to me. I don't want to take a decision and then regret and leave,
then become like I don't believe in anything or whatever. I know You are there, but
what's the way for You? If that's the way from You, just show it to me. I need to
know it, and I'm willing to follow. I know You are going to help me."
(07:33):
And at that time everybody was in prayer, it was quiet time, the Lord talked to me
in a voice, and I thought everybody heard that voice, but nobody did but myself. It
was in my language, Arabic, it's one word, but in English it's three words. It was, "I
love you."
Josh (07:56):
Wow.
Salam (07:57):
I said, "Is that You?" I opened my eyes, nobody listened to that voice but me. It was
really like you can... Nobody's listening but me. So, "Is that You talking to me?" And
the voice came again, "I love you." And that was the missing link in the Islamic faith,
they say God is merciful in Islam, but He never proved that He's merciful. Like if
somebody's engaged and he never brought any gift to his fiance, you know what I
mean? So what kind of love is that?
Josh (08:33):
So in the 99 names of Allah, love is not one of them.
Salam (08:37):
It's merciful, but not love. Love, it's the extra step, where you give without expect-
ing to take. And what does God expect to take from us? We're sinners. So He gave
everything, He gave His Son for us and that make the missing link in Islam, which is
love. Because he loved us, He sent Jesus for us. It makes the whole sense. So imme-
diately I felt I'm a different person from inside, energetic, and I ran out from the
church to the street, want to tell everybody what I found, the treasure that I found.
And that gentleman followed me immediately to see, "Why he's running out? I
brought him with my car."
Josh (09:21):
So you literally ran out?
Salam (09:23):
I was a student. I don't have a car or anyway of transportation, so, "I want to bring
him, where's he going?" I went to the first... I found a lady asking for money in the
street. She's in poor situation, and I started telling her about Jesus, and he grabbed
me from my clothes, he said, "Get to the car now. You can't do that in this country.
You'll be in jail, and I'll be in jail too." From that day, I knew there's a treasure and
this treasure should be shared with others.
Josh (09:52):
Oh, man.
Salam (09:53):
Whatever the cost is, we should find a way to share this treasure, Jesus Christ.
Josh (09:57):
I love that, Salam. I love it.
Will (09:58):
Page 3 of 12
That's amazing. I think it's amazing. You mentioned that the Lebanese civil war
that's created the tension that began that journey, and that's actually where Amal's
story also began, who we've talked to on this podcast. And so it's amazing that, in
that terrible, bloody tragedy that God was working in your life and working in Amal's
life. Samar, you grew up in a Christian home similar to Salam, but more evangelical.
Samar (10:39):
No, traditional.
Will (10:40):
Traditional church?
Samar (10:40):
Yeah.
Josh (10:40):
Tell us about that.
Samar (10:43):
I'm the same. I lived in a city , it's a small city that the majority of the people were
from traditional churches and actually the missionaries from America, they came to
this city and they had a hospital, they had a school and they built it. A school, hospi-
tal, and a church. So I had this inside of me. I used to go, my dad was Greek Ortho-
dox, my mom was Catholic, and here I was going to the evangelical church. So I had
this struggle inside of me that there must be someone is right. Started praying to
the Lord, "I want to know you. I want to hear from you."
(11:41):
So as a child, I started going to the Sunday school, and then joined the church, but
still didn't have the peace that I really needed from the Lord. And during that time,
we didn't have many converts in churches. Muslims go to mosque, Christians go to
churches. And that's why it was a big struggle inside of me when we got married,
and I know that's his heart, he wanted to reach Muslims. For me it was, do you re-
ally believe that they can change? And we started the journey from there. I started
seeing really Muslims coming, loving the Lord even more than Christians. So one
time during a conference, one of the church conferences, the same pastor that
Salam heard the message from about the love of God, I've heard it.
Josh (12:43):
Oh wow.
Samar (12:44):
So, that day I accepted the Lord and, as he said, the joy I had, it was amazing.
Will (12:50):
That's amazing.
Samar (12:50):
And started just wanting to serve the Lord from day one. But mainly my ministry
was in the church and at the school. I worked at the school as a teacher there then,
so my love, my zeal was just to get the gospel out and to help at the church.
Will (13:12):
Do you remember when that preacher... First of all, that guy has a great batting av-
erage. But do you remember what it was that clicked that I guess made you want to
take that step of faith or begin following Jesus?
Samar (13:34):
Page 4 of 12
The glitch was the love of God and it's not the word, the deeds, that's the problem.
We used to go to the other churches and I don't want to say anything, but it's all on
deeds. If you are a good person, if you come to church Sunday, if you do this, and
that, and that will lead you to heaven. But for me, it didn't make sense. There is this
void inside of you that there is something more than going and doing good stuff.
And so the love of Jesus, that's really what touched my heart, made a big difference.
And starting to read the Bible, having Bible studies, that helped a lot, made me un-
derstand more that this is the relation I want with God, and started from there pray-
ing that when I get married, I want a guy that loves you and he really wants to
serve the Lord. This is the only one I want.
Josh (14:30):
Wow.
(14:34):
So, Salam and Samar both came from Christian backgrounds, but they did not truly
know Jesus as their Lord and Savior until they had both encountered other Chris-
tians and learned more about the love of Christ. For each of them it was this love
that compelled them to become Christians.
(14:54):
I'd love to talk about your ministry together, serving in your home country now, I
want the audience to hear a story about why you had to leave your home country
prior to 9/11.
Salam (15:12):
Most of the governments in the Middle East, as the Bible says, the governments are
from God appointed by God to give peace, give security to people, and that's what
we really need to live in. The challenge comes from the majority people. The gov-
ernments want to maintain that piece, but the majority is not happy with the minori-
ties, and they think they're
Josh (15:36):
And in this instance you mean that the majority Muslim governments dislike and
even persecute Christians and other religious minorities?
Salam (15:44):
They don't want to listen to the other. They don't recognize the other. And in many
of those countries they say, "Are there Arab Christians?" Yes, of course they do. Be-
fore Islam came, the whole areas were having many Christians in there, Jews were
living there, different religions before Islam came. But now they forgot the history.
They said, "No, we are the majority, so you should be a kind of wicked teaching you
have, infidels, you are unclean," all this teaching about Christianity. And reaching
the majority is risky by the majority themselves more than the governments. The
governments want to maintain the balance, so there's no friction that happens be-
tween the two faiths, or people wouldn't attack each other and cause violence and
insecurity in the country. That's their major concern. So they want to stop any kind
of meetings with the religions together, or discussions, dialogues, they are not with
it.
Josh (16:48):
Anything that could cause a Holy War needs to be stopped.
Salam (16:51):
Yes.
Page 5 of 12
Josh (16:52):
So the government will make it difficult for people of different religions to meet
each other because they're afraid of what will happen. They want to maintain the
balance, the peace between the groups, and the way they do that is by keeping
them apart and separate.
(17:09):
It needs to be stopped.
Salam (17:10):
Yes. And they say, "You don't know that people you are meeting with." Because
once I was working in media and broadcasting our phone number on the air, and a
group of people called us, that's one of the examples. And they said, "We are a
group of this Islamic party," and it's a fanatic party. I know that very well. And, "We
have questions about the Christian faith." And for me, God gave me the boldness. I
feel that all people are born equal, they should have the same rights and we should
love each other actually, we shouldn't hate each other. I said, "Of course, gladly.
Come, and we'll meet."
(17:50):
We started meeting in church, and six of them came, those people, and I have three
other friends with me whom we are interested in the Islamic faith, Muslims faith,
and the dialogue thing. We know how to do it. And we started. Of course some of
those people were really, sorry to say it, but they were brainwashed. It's like they
don't accept anything. It's like they have a blockage around their way of thinking, or
brains, and the others are asking questions back and forth, but we have respect in
those meetings. Nobody's insulting anyone, full respect. We'll discuss topics like the
grace of God, the love of God, the forgiveness of God. So how do we think about
those issues? And that's how we presented Christ to them. During those conversa-
tions, one of those guys became a terrorist later>
Josh (18:44):
He joined Al-Qaeda, Osama bin Laden in running Al-Qaeda.
Salam (18:48):
And he was fighting in Iraq actually.
Josh (18:50):
Was the head of Al-Qaeda in Iraq.
Salam (18:52):
He was the head.
Josh (18:53):
Wow.
Salam (18:55):
And he was killed later by American troops in there. But those meetings were
stopped by the government of that country.
Josh (19:06):
They came to you?
Salam (19:07):
They came to me. They said, "Do you know whom you are meeting with?" I said,
"Yes, I know. Of course I know." They said, "You shouldn't meet with them." I said,
"Why?" Said, "They are very dangerous. Even the government cannot handle them
Page 6 of 12
properly, so you don't have the ability to handle them. And actually we've been fol-
lowing them, and we found them in your place. So why are they doing? How many
times you met with them?" I said, "About six times." And those meetings were
stopped. But we reached a stage where on Christmas, they'll call us and wish us a
Merry Christmas.
Josh (19:43):
Wow.
Salam (19:43):
So we reached kind of stage, and one of the guys who's the youngest among them,
called me and said, "Were those meetings stopped because of the government?" I
said, "Yes," so I can't but tell him the truth. He said, "Actually, it was my pleasure
getting to know you. You are good people." So I wish for all of them to know the
Lord at that time, but this guy became an extremist, and I was in the States here
when I saw how he was ambushed, he and his group, and he was killed. And I was
crying on the TV.
Will (20:18):
Man.
Salam (20:19):
And everybody's saying, "He's a devil. He's an evil person. It's good this happened."
I said, "No, it's not good, because he could have been saved. It's not good. It's not
good at all." You know what I mean? So the government regimes is trying to main-
tain this balance, and they know what's going on really, how dangerous it is. But
still, when you step further, you can save somebody. You step further into this mine
land, but you can save someone there.
Will (20:52):
Salam, I think people are probably listening, and to think that you cried over the
death of a terrorist is hard to understand, and it speaks to the depth of love that
you have for the Muslim people, that you so want them to know Christ, that you're
so broken over the fact that he died in his sin. We don't know exactly what hap-
pened in the latter minutes of his life, but we presume that he died as an enemy of
God. But I think some people may find it hard to get their arms around the degree
to which you love these people, and want to see them come to know Christ.
Salam (21:39):
If I was born to this family, this radical family, I might end the same like him. So I
put myself in his shoes for some time. So everybody should be given an opportu-
nity. He was given the opportunity, but if we extended it more, the Lord knows bet-
ter than us, I can't think too much about it, but it is sad to see somebody dying
away from the real God, and thinking that God hates others, and he wants to kill
others, and God wants to save everybody, he doesn't want anybody to be killed. So
he died with this mentality that he wants to kill others. Well, it's the opposite. He
didn't understand God right.
Will (22:22):
Correct.
Salam (22:22):
Sad.
Will (22:22):
Wow. Yeah. That's really sad.
Page 7 of 12
Josh (22:26):
That particular incident, witnessing to these six men, and the government saying,
"No, do not continue to meet with them and follow up with them," that precipitated
your having to leave your home country. Tell us, Salam and Samar, what happened,
why you had to leave.
Salam (22:45):
After those incidents, the government started talking to me more, I mean the police
and security in the country. And one time they asked me to come to report to the
police department, and they said, "We captured the guy, and in his confession, he
has to fill pages and pages of whatever is on his mind, names and people. And your
name was there on his list. He wants to get rid of you."
Will (23:10):
Wow.
Salam (23:11):
And immediately I asked, "I need to see him now in his cell, and I want to explain to
him that I don't hate him. Why does he hate me?" He said, "No, you cannot see him
at all." I said, "But it's it my right to see him and change his mind setting? How his
mind is set." Said, "No, but you are playing with the fire, so we cannot protect you a
lot."
Josh (23:36):
Salam and Samar's willingness to talk to everyone about Jesus. Even terrorists, be-
gan to put them in very dangerous situations where they could no longer be pro-
tected.
Salam (23:50):
After that, another report from the police, they asked me immediately to report to
the police station and they said, "We captured a terrorist that he wanted to kidnap
your daughter while the school bus was dropping here at school."
Will (24:04):
Wow.
Salam (24:04):
She was a first-grader, six years old. And they said, "We captured the guy in time,
and now we're going to tell you you are on your own. We left the security of you.
We're not going to protect you anymore." So we were following you, we've been
watching your home, your office, your church, just to protect you. But this is the
coast of dealing with radical groups in the country. We know you're not involved,
you are patriotic, you love your country, you pray for your country, you pray for
your rulers, but that's the consequences, and you have to face it." At that time, we
flew to the United States of America, and we got naturalized here after six years.
But 9/11 took place during those two years, made things more late in the process.
Josh (24:57):
What was it like? Tell us a bit about life. We won't probably say the city where you
live, but we'll say the Southeast. What was it like living in the Southeast of the
United States?
Salam (25:07):
The South is a blessed area in the United States. You see many Christians, you see
many crosses, many churches. You see many people going to churches on Sunday,
and you can feel the majority people have this Christian culture, respect. I mean,
Page 8 of 12
the way people drive, the way people stand in line, the rights, people respect the
rights of others, and it's just being nice. It's the Bible culture, when people are nice,
that means the Bible is penetrated into their lives. I know not everyone is like this,
but the majority are. And we are blessed to go to a church, it was big church for us.
About 4,000 members, we're used to a church with 100 member at the most where
we came from. But we felt how kind people are, and actually I felt that they are liv-
ing too much in a peaceful life compared to my life. And they sleep peacefully, they
woke up peacefully, while where I came from, there's no peace because of this kind
of friction between religions all the time. So, people who are in the southern part of
the United States, at least, they are blessed.
Will (26:29):
Did you face any prejudice or rudeness or anything surrounding 9/11?
Samar (26:38):
Yes, definitely. When this happened, and we just been in the country for a year, so
we would go to the store, and everybody's looking us just like, "What are you doing
here? Why are you here?" It's like we are terrorists, and we're thinking, "Oh my
goodness. Doesn't these people know that we are Christians? And many of the peo-
ple in the back in their head that there are no Christians in the Middle East, that all
people are Muslim background. And the fact is, no, we say Christian for any kind
of... The difference is this. When you say Christian in the Middle East, that means
you are either Catholic, you are either Greek Orthodox, Evangelical Christian, be-
cause your dad and your family is a Christian, you are Christian. And it used to be
where they would write on your ID, a religion. What's your religion?
Will (27:46):
Oh, wow.
Samar (27:46):
So it was really very hard when this took place. Even we would go to church, and
different places we go, we really felt that, with the kids at school, the same. And in-
side of us, I don't blame the people because they didn't know. They didn't know that
we are Christians, we love Jesus, we are not like this. But just the color of the skin
would show that you are-
Will (28:15):
The accent and the language.
Samar (28:16):
And the accent, anything. We did, for few months, even longer than few months, we
could feel the difference.
Josh (28:26):
One thing I've never known is how you actually got here. Did you use a visa, a reli-
gious worker visa? What was the purpose of... How did you-
Salam (28:36):
My parents were here, living here before me. So it's the process. They applied for
me. I had my Green Card ready with me. Then I applied for my wife, and when this
thing happened, the threat of this group going to kidnap my daughter, were about
to kidnap her, and the visa of summer came at the right time for immigration. And it
was the Lord's timing in here.
(29:01):
Page 9 of 12
But when we came here, when this 9/11 happened, my boss at work told me, "If you
go to the mall, try to avoid the malls. Don't speak on your Arabic language at all."
And then I called my pastor at church, said, "Shall I come Sunday to church?" He
said, "Are you crazy? Of course you come. Of course you come, you are Christians."
Will (29:25):
Good.
Salam (29:25):
He said, "But people might mix things together." Because the day I went to work, I
found the staff and my colleagues gathering around a small TV screen, and watch-
ing the hit of the first-
Will (29:41):
Tower.
Salam (29:41):
... building, tower in New York." And I said, "Wow, that's war. Where is it happen-
ing?" He said, "It's here in the United States." I said "Here? So the war is following
me?" You know what I mean? And then the other building got hit while watching.
And they were so sad. I was living in war, so maybe I am cold-blooded against war.
But then I saw those innocent people that were going to work, and they hit them.
That's too much. That's rudeness. It should stop. But for me, the honest truth, it was
an awakening for the general Americans, that there is an enemy of your faith and
freedom. So maybe it's the time to wake up. And after that, more mission work was
enhanced to reach out for those people.
Will (30:39):
What was it like for you? I mean, you clearly had a heart for Muslim people, even
the extremist people, and then shortly after coming to America, that happens, and
there's a very, very strong prejudice against the Middle East and Muslims, and defi-
nitely no love for your enemies, or any of that in the cultural air. What was it like for
you to have a heart for these people in a nation that was very aggressively against
those people, while also having a sense of gratitude for being in America that you
expressed? How did you walk through that?
Salam (31:33):
You mean in the States, or in my home country?
Will (31:37):
In the States.
Salam (31:39):
I felt like I need to tell them that I'm different, first of all, that I'm Christian. And I
faced a lot of challenges before when I lived in my home town, but that's a test of
love. Do you love your enemies or not? And we passed this test before the American
people here. And we start telling them, "Just get to know them." And I found even
the church services, some of them were about what Muslims believe in, what's the
difference between Muslims and Christianity, what's missing in the Islamic faith, and
all that, which really was very good. And I started telling people that we have a call
to go back and serve in our country, and now they appreciate this, that what we are
doing is really a big sacrifice. Those people ran for their lives, came to the States,
and now they are thinking of going back to serve. So they feel the furnace, the fire.
But we want even Americans to serve Muslims in the States, that's our heart.
Josh (32:48):
Page 10 of 12
I remember talking to you about the zeal that you had for sharing the gospel, not
just in your home country, but when you got to the United States. And you began
sharing in your workplace, which was a hospital of sorts, right?
Salam (33:02):
Yeah.
Josh (33:02):
Tell us about what that was like, that experience.
Salam (33:05):
I was doing an administrative work, but some of those people under rehabilitation,
they will come to me, and they knew I'm Christian, so I was praying with them.
Some of them, I'm sharing with them the hope, because I don't think there's any
other hope outside God himself. And a colleague, my best friend at work, he came
to me and he said, "I'm Christian, and I used to be committed. I'm not now. And I
encouraged him to go back to church, of course, and said like, "Okay, what's your
advice?" He said, "You can't pray with people." I said, "I'm doing this on my lunch
break, actually, I'm not using the work hours, so I'm faithful to my employer." He
said, "Still, it can be like you are guiding people to Christ. I know what you do. I
know you love people, and you talk to them, and they are comfortable with you."
But I said, "So what will happen? So why you are giving me this advice?" Said,
"What's the worst thing could happen?" Said, "You'll be fired from work." I said,
"That's it?" Compared to where I came from, you might be killed. So you want to
stop sharing the gospel because you might be fired? That's nothing. What a punish-
ment is that? It's nothing really. The cost is very little compared to...
Will (34:31):
Wow.
Josh (34:32):
Samar, we've heard a lot from Salam about leaving your home country, but Salam is
a refugee. He's originally from the home country we're talking about, but this was
your home home country, where you were born and raised. What was it like to leave
all that you knew to come to the US?
Samar (34:52):
It was, I would say, the hardest time of our lives. Mainly because we didn't want to
leave. We were in ministry. We were doing ministry all over, church, through media,
meeting people, visiting, and out of nowhere, we are in a place where we have to
leave the country. It's not something that we really wanted to do. I know it's a privi-
lege to move to America, this is the dreamland for everybody. But for us, the thing
was, we really didn't want to leave. We were happy with what we are doing, satis-
fied. So when we came, I would say the first six months, I remember every single
day, at night when we go to bed, we start crying, both of us. And the question for
the Lord was, "Lord, why? Did we do something wrong? Was there anything that
we've done that we... Just anything wrong?"
(35:58):
Never got the answer back until later, after eight years, actually, when we left the
country and we had the American passport, and we came to a ministry where we
needed those American passports to go back, and witness in countries that we
wouldn't be allowed to go if we didn't have the American passport. But during the
process, we couldn't see it. But the thing that I will never forget that during that
time, the hardest time of our life, honestly, it was like somebody's hugging, his arm
Page 11 of 12
was around us. You would feel it, that we are in his arms, he's taking care of us. Yes,
we are crying, but we know he's there.
(36:46):
So it was a big challenge at the beginning. Then, from day one we started going to
church. And the hard thing was, too, that we go to a church, it's a big church, we
don't know anybody for about six months. People were very nice, just smiling in our
faces, "Good morning, how are you?" Take the children to Sunday school. But to re-
ally know somebody, or someone to even invite us for a meal... We are coming from
the culture, the Arabic culture is very much into, you're invited to lunch, to dinner-
Will (37:22):
Yeah, hospitality.
Samar (37:22):
... culture very, I don't know, warm culture.
Will (37:28):
Definitely.
Samar (37:30):
So it was a challenge until the day we were really crying outside the church, and out
of nowhere, a lady came and she said, "Guys, we've seen you, it was six months,
been coming to church, would you like to come for lunch with us?" And that minute,
we both cried. We said, "Okay, Lord, now you are looking. We are here." So it was
rough, but a great experience to learn a lot of lessons. And from there, we went
into, started seeing the freedom that America has, the freedom that the church has.
(38:11):
And something inside of me just wanted to tell the people, "Guys, you have a lot.
God blessed you with so many things that we don't have. Even simple things, a
dryer, a washer, hot water. It's cold, and you are not freezing, you have heaters in-
side." So I felt like this is the mission that I really want the Americans to know so
they can love God more, put more into reaching other people and just enjoy the
freedom that they have, especially in talking to others, like Salam said. You can go
and just share the gospel, and you are not in danger. When I would see people pray-
ing at the restaurant, that used to fill our heart with joy. You couldn't do it in where
we are, you can't. Now, I think it's a bit easier, you can do it, but there were times
that this is not usual.
Will (39:20):
Well, I hope you were edified, and encouraged, and challenged by this conversation
with Salam and Samar. Once again, I know that I really was, and it was just such a
worshipful reminder that, where there is no church yet, where there are no scrip-
tures yet, the Holy Spirit steps in and intervenes out of his great mercy. And it's just
a great reminder that, Josh, despite the work that I do, the work that you do, it is
the spirit of God that builds the church, and we're just day laborers.
Josh (39:56):
No doubt, and I think we should all be encouraged by the faithful obedience of peo-
ple like Salam and Samar. And they are a critical part of our team. Without them, a
lot of the countries that spoke off of where they are located would not exist. And so
they are a part of the Help the Persecuted team, and to learn more about our team,
you can go to htp.org, and you can even support Salam and Samar, and the work
that we're doing at that website.